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Questions about 2th edition rules

Alien vs Predator›AvP: Boardgame Rules Discussion
Kurush's picture
Kurush • 7 years ago

Hi!

I have some problems with understanding rules of ranged combat.
1. If a marine makes ranged attack against a predator, who is engaged in close combat with an alien, this marine has -10 modifier to his RS test. But if a marine is engaged in close combat and makes ranged attack against an enemy in another tile, this marine has only -2 modifier to his RS test, is it right?

2. May a model make ranged attack from a tile adjacent to a fully occupied and engaged tile if the target is on this fully occupied and engaged tile? What modifiers should be used if a player wants this model to make a ranged attack targeting any other tile?

3. May a marine with a flamethrower make such maneuver: the model starts its turn on a tile adjacent to air vent tile, and there is a model with a motion tracker on the same tile. This sly marine with a flamethrower makes a move action into the air vent tile, then makes a ranged attack targeting a tile adjacent to the air vent from the other side, and then, finishes his activation and returnes back to the tile he started his turn.

Maybe these are stupid questions, but I'm not good in English, so it's very hard for me to understand some parts of rules, and I'll be very grateful for help and answers!

Replies

Chiller087's picture

Chiller087 • 7 years ago

Using 2nd edition rules:

1. That is correct.

2. In your example, the model shooting at an engaged tile would suffer a minimum -10 penalty to RS, because the target is engaged. If there are any other ENGAGED tiles OCCUPIED BY AT LEAST 1 MODEL in the way, the shooter would suffer an additional -2 for each ENGAGED tile that has at least 1 enemy model on it.

3. Wow, good catch. The Ping! ability specifically says it provides line of sight, but flamethrower says it can be used without line of sight if Ping! is active and within its legal range.

In my mind, It all comes down to, "Are you drawing LoS for the flamethrower when using Ping! to allow the Marine to, for example, shoot around a corner?" Pretty sure the answer to that is no. You're not actually drawing LoS; Ping! simply says you have it when using Flamethrower or Grenade.

If you using Ping! To "see" through an air duct, again...not actually drawing LoS. Ping! simply says you have it. So based on that reasoning I personally think it would work.

Kurush's picture

Kurush • 7 years ago

Thank you! That's great news for marines. And bad for others...

polymythic's picture

polymythic • 7 years ago

1- It is apparently correct, and as our group agrees, feels odd in the situation you describe (who cares what we hit?). If there was a friendly engaged on the target tile, that feels merited (don't hit a friendly!). Also the -10 makes sense if you are shooting at someone on your own tile (which is an engaged tile). That certainly merits a -10.

3- I am not sure I understand your question. It is my understanding that you execute one action after another to completion. Doing a RUN action to move 1 tile, taking a shooting action, and them moving again back does not seem consistent with the rules. Or, to grab a specific clause from the Air Vent rules "A Model must move at least two tiles to move through an Air Vent, as per the example below:" So technically you're not moving at least 2 tiles hopping in and out anyway.

Chiller087's picture

Chiller087 • 7 years ago

So I got a response from the rules team. They said #3 doesn't work because the legality check is made as soon as the move is completed, so you'd have to move back into a legal tile before you could fire the flamethrower.

Kurush's picture

Kurush • 7 years ago

Chiller087, ok, so the sly marine is not as sly as I thought. Thank you, anyway, it's good to have an official answer.

polymythic, that makes sense. So in our group, I guess, the rule will sound like "a ranged attack from, into or through an engaged tile with a friendly force suffers -10 penalty to RS. A ranged attack through occupied tiles without any friendly models suffers -2 penalty for each tile".
I'm not sure if a model can use a ranged attack into the same tile it is standing on. Even using a shotgun ability "pointblank shot" a model should use its CC to make an attack. Otherwise, marines and predators have an opportunity to attack twice during one turn - using RS and CC.

polymythic's picture

polymythic • 7 years ago

Our group is using the rule "a ranged attack from, or into, and engaged tile with a friendly force suffers a -10 penalty to RS." and "A ranged attack through any engaged tile is -2 per tile". The second may seem strange, but if you are targeting something in particular far away, and there are things you want to avoid, you can maneuver and change position to avoid hitting those things (even if they are 2 enemies fighting). However, if you are firing from an engaged tile, a -10 is merited because a predator or alien on your square is going to put your shooter under some serious duress. And firing into a tile with a friendly where dynamic close combat is happening will require a surgical shot.

On the second point: we have been playing where marines and predators CAN do close combat AND ranged skill during a turn. They are separate action types. However, that shot is at -10 (because you are firing from an engaged tile), so its practically garbage. This is why paroxism is so good, it gets multiple weapon attacks in close combat at a high skill value. I hope I am right on that one. That warrants an example in the rulebook on the right way to play because it is so hard to understand what the rules intend.

Kurush's picture

Kurush • 7 years ago

Of course models can make both close combat and ranged attacks during one turn. But if models can do all types of attacks in one tile it seems to overpower them, as I see it. Not that much for marines, but for a predator hunter this means 6 attacks with some good chances to hit. I just can't understand how aliens can win with such rules. But, sure, may be I'm wrong. Only a lot of playtests can give an answer - or somebody of authors of the game, they've done a lot of playtests already.

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