Secondary menu

WZR 2.0 rules questions

Assur's picture

I've read the rules, had a practice game and a few questions came up:

1. Short-Ranged Burst: do I have to allocate all of the weapon's RoA to targets within 12" to get the Short-Ranged Burst RoA bonus? For example I have (basic or from a resource) RoA 2, 1 shot is at a model within 12" the second shot is at a model 13" away - do I get the 3rd RoA from Short-Ranged Burst?

2. From which point of the shooting model(or its facing screen to be precise) should I measure if the target is in cover or not? For example the target would be in cover if measured from the middle, but would be below 25% of cover if measured from the top of the facing screen/shooting model. Can the shooting model choose the most adcvantageous perspective?

3. Fumble - does it occur for saving rolls using Con or Wp instead of Amrour Value? Fumble description mentions only armour value tests as immune but it seems logical that WP/Con saving rolls should be treated the same.

4. Paired Weapons in CC - do I have to allocate both weapons' entire RoA to one model or is there more flexibility? Can I use the second weapon if I kill the targeted model with the 1st weapon? For example: weaponX has RoA 2- can I allocate these attacks to 2 different models? Then, paired weapon Y also has RoA 2 - can I allocate any attacks to different models than weaponX?

5. Paired weapons in ranged combat - are thay used one after another or simultaneously (I assume the former as - contrary to Torrent of Fire rule - the word simultaneously isn't used). Questions about multiple RoA and multiple targets asked in CC part are also valid for ranged paired weapons.

6. Infiltrators - can the same unit be deployed in more than 1 terrain piece (but still in coherency of course)?

7. Pivoting during walk/run/charge actions for non-vehicle models - seems pretty obvious, just wanted to confirm that I can freely pivot during these actions.

8. What happens to resource cards if Cybertronic 732-R4-NCE is the army commander, gets killed and then comes back by Backup Systems? Same solution as for Ilina's Undying/Regeneration rule?

9. Cybertronic Scorpion's Avalanche ability - should the weapons be used one after another or simultaneously (I assume the former as - contrary to Torrent of Fire rule - the word simultaneously isn't used, and the 1.6 description clearly made them used one after another)

I'd appreciate if one of the authors of the current rules spared a few minutes to answer these questions. Don't get me wropng - in general I like the new rules, they are an improvement over the previous ones, but it's inevitable that some rules need clarification.

Replies

Feralzen's picture

Hi thoughts I'd give you a hand. Posted your questions on Facebook where all the devs are. Here's an answer from one of them Andrea Micheel:

1) The ROA counts against targets within 12", so no.
2) This question will pop up in every game and will NEVER be solved by anyone I guess. Really: choose any method (weapon, head) and use it throughout the game consistently.
3) Fumble should not happen during armour tests or tests taken instead of an armour test.
4) if model 1 is dead, you can continue your attacks against model #2
5) it doesnt really matter as you can use it against the same target only anyway. So if the target still lives after shooting with weapon #2, continue, otherwise you just saved yourself some dice rolls
6) well, any singular infiltrator needs to be "within" any terrain piece, so has to be fully in it. You can spread your squad between multiple terrain pieces though.
7) yes, free pivot for normal models
8) set the cards aside and return them to play or remove them once its clear what happens to NCE
9) same answer as above. Against 1 target, so it really doesnt matter. If would matter only if a model had multiple template weapon

Feralzen's picture

Hi thoughts I'd give you a hand. Posted your questions on Facebook where all the devs are. Here's an answer from one of them Andrea Micheel:

1) The ROA counts against targets within 12", so no.
2) This question will pop up in every game and will NEVER be solved by anyone I guess. Really: choose any method (weapon, head) and use it throughout the game consistently.
3) Fumble should not happen during armour tests or tests taken instead of an armour test.
4) if model 1 is dead, you can continue your attacks against model #2
5) it doesnt really matter as you can use it against the same target only anyway. So if the target still lives after shooting with weapon #2, continue, otherwise you just saved yourself some dice rolls
6) well, any singular infiltrator needs to be "within" any terrain piece, so has to be fully in it. You can spread your squad between multiple terrain pieces though.
7) yes, free pivot for normal models
8) set the cards aside and return them to play or remove them once its clear what happens to NCE
9) same answer as above. Against 1 target, so it really doesnt matter. If would matter only if a model had multiple template weapon

dunnagh's picture

That´s Andreas :-P Apart from that: thanks for posting that here ;)

Assur's picture

Thanks for help Feralzen.

I don't agree about the order of using paired weapons being irrelevant. On the Scorpion example: shotgun is used 1st and kills a few models that would provide cover for an enemy model which I then target with dart cannon (and resolve hits without the RS penalty for cover).

Assur's picture

A few more questions have come up after recent games:

1. Retake the Field mission - when (which turn) can the defender win it? Turn 4 is specified only for the attacker, nothing about the defender. Can both players complete their mission at the same time and get points for it (seems possible in this mission)?

2. Wolfbane Rites - when are they chosen? During army creation? After/before deployment? Can they be chosen or changed later in each control phase or is the Wolbane Player stuck with the ones he began the game with? Contrary to Howls, Rites description seems confusing and needs some clarification.

3. Cybertronic Enhanced Formation - can a single Eradicator be taken as a light vehicle (if available as heavy in the formation) like in the basic list?

4. Hamasaki Taro - does he count himself for Chant of Fujimi?

5. Bushido Master's Master Teacher and Kurzada's Master of Symmetry - do they give access to powers of models that have been already killed, are held in reserve or stalking ones (in other words, models out of play)?

6. Cybertronic's Resistant to Psychic Powers - does the +4WP bonus work against psychic template attack such as grenades (I guess the intention was yes, but reading it RAW one could argue that grenades/shotguns/flamers don't have targets as such)?

Not as many questions as before, but at least the 1st and 2nd are quite important. It would be nice if one of the authors could spare a few minutes to answer them. I'd appreciate if someone could post it on Facebook. They would probably get answered a bit faster there, unfortunately for the questions I don't use FB.

Ciern's picture

Quick question abute Vince Diamond and Cybertronic Enhanced Formation

Only formation with Vince are Mirrowman Propaganda Force ( mirrowmen, machinators,scorpion and eradicator are in this force). One of his rules (enhanced) works only on Chasseurs. Why are you giving him a rule that don't go well with army? My proposition are :
- make chasseurs 0-1 troop/support in Mirrowman Propaganda Force
- make Vince Diamond Battlefield Reclamation Squad character

dunnagh's picture

Some more answers:
Paired Weapons: It´s the same Shooting Action, so just assume they have the cover regardless which weapon is fired first.
1. Retake the Field: Seems we are missing an "at the end of turn 4" here. Correct assessment. Indeed it seems both Players can win (example: 10 starting squads, Defender kills 6, attacker has 3 in convergence). I´d say, the Odds of this Happening are very Slim, but yes, this could happen. I´ll add this to our watchlist.
2. Rites are part of the army creation ("upgrade"). You cannot Change them during the game as they are Chosen before the game starts
3. Currently under discussion. My personal view is "yes", but there are reasonable other views. For the Moment, treat it as yes.
4. Yes, he Counts. Otherwise we would have written "All other..."
5. If they are dead, there´s no Access anymore. If they are not on the table yet: no Access. Stalk: debatable, but I´d say no as they are considered to be "blank" for all other purposes
6. RAW, no as they are not targeted. Psychic grenades and FT are very rare so this shouldnt meddle with balancing
7. Vince Diamond: Works as intended for now. Not everything has to be 100% useful all of the time.

Assur's picture

Thanks for help dunnagh! More games, more questions:

1. Cleard path art power - is the ability to choose vehicle location also considered a bonus (can the affected model choose vehicle location for all his shots)?

2. Morale tests for mixed squads (containing unbeakable and not-unbreakable models) - when do they have to make pinning/break tests, when isn't it necessary? Examples:

- A not-ubreakable Necromutant Leader (or just a Necromutant squad commander) is attached to a squad of unbreakable Undead Legionnaires
- A Heretic squad commander with portal of undeath makes a few lucky kills - as a result wa have a unit consisting of 3 Heretics and 3 Undead Legionnaires
- Unbreakable Feldwebel Richard Meier is attached to a Hussar squad
- Oppresseur advisor in a Chasseur squad (an interesting case of a vehicle in a non-vehicle unit)

3. Does Cybertronic Resistant to Psychic Powers WP bonus work against Dominion art power?

4. Charatcers joining/leaving units in advanced games:
4a: When a character with an allocated tactical/gear card joins a unit - is the entire squad affected by the card?
4b: Whan a charater joins a unit with an allocated tactical/gear card - is the character affected by the card?
4c: When a character leaves a unit with an allocated tactical/gear card - what happens to the card, can it affect both units or just one (which one)?
4d: Can a character with an allocated tactical/gear card join a unit with an allocated tactical/same gear card?

5. Charatcers joining/leaving units and debuffs: what happens when a character leaves a unit affected by a debuff power? Are both still affected or just one (which one)?

6. Can an Attila Exterminateur make more than 6 shots by combining its weapon ability, tactical card and burning a resource (I see no reason to forbid it, but I've seen a different interpretation so just wanted to make sure).

7. Are hits from Attila Exterminateur's weapon on its core resolved before or simultaneously/after making shots (can they kill the Attila before it gets to shoot)? [EDIT: actually I found the answer myself: Juggernaut's Weapon Overcharge specifically says that a similiar roll is made before RS tests, there is no such requirement for the Exterminateur so the self-inflicted hits can be resolved at least simultaneously with all the RS tests]

8. Max Steiner and Creaming Devil have Booby/Gas traps in their equipment list but no rules for them - so do they have them or not? If yes, what rules what are the rules for traps (same as Venusian Rangers/Crimson Devils)?

9. What happens when a template or a rail line hits an open transport carrying some troops? Is everyone hit or should it be randomised in some way?

ChaosCowboy's picture

Question regarding Imperial:

If I understand correctly, NCO's, which are characters (no longer able to be an upgrade for a trencher squad), are able to both generate, and use Ribbon tokens. A company banner acts the same way, gaining a ribbon token when enemies are killed. Question is twofold:

1) Does an NCO with the Banner get 2 ribbon tokens for each kill? Since they're 2 seperate abilities granting you tokens.
2) Is there any point to giving an Imperial Officer the banner vs the NCO? The imperial officer can't use the ribbon tokens.

Dargor's picture

Greetings.

I will try to answer Your Questions:

1) Does an NCO with the Banner get 2 ribbon tokens for each kill? Since they're 2 seperate abilities granting you tokens.

Yes as the Company Banner states that the model "Generates (+1) Ribbon marker" so in my opinion this banner enhances the ribbon count.

2) Is there any point to giving an Imperial Officer the banner vs the NCO? The imperial officer can't use the ribbon tokens.

The Imperial Officer has an Army standard not a the company banner thus when You upgrade him with the banner he gives +3 to LD.
Best regards,

Assur's picture

Added questions 8 and 9 to the list in my previous post.

dunnagh's picture

1. Cleard path art power - is the ability to choose vehicle location also considered a bonus (can the affected model choose vehicle location for all his shots)?

Yes.

2. Morale tests for mixed squads (containing unbeakable and not-unbreakable models) - when do they have to make pinning/break tests, when isn't it necessary? Examples:

- A not-ubreakable Necromutant Leader (or just a Necromutant squad commander) is attached to a squad of unbreakable Undead Legionnaires
- A Heretic squad commander with portal of undeath makes a few lucky kills - as a result wa have a unit consisting of 3 Heretics and 3 Undead Legionnaires
- Unbreakable Feldwebel Richard Meier is attached to a Hussar squad
- Oppresseur advisor in a Chasseur squad (an interesting case of a vehicle in a non-vehicle unit)

for the Moment, apply whatever Counts for the majority of the models. (i.e. 95 breakable 5% unbreakable: all breakable)

3. Does Cybertronic Resistant to Psychic Powers WP bonus work against Dominion art power?

yes

4. Charatcers joining/leaving units in advanced games:
4a: When a character with an allocated tactical/gear card joins a unit - is the entire squad affected by the card?
4b: Whan a charater joins a unit with an allocated tactical/gear card - is the character affected by the card?
4c: When a character leaves a unit with an allocated tactical/gear card - what happens to the card, can it affect both units or just one (which one)?
4d: Can a character with an allocated tactical/gear card join a unit with an allocated tactical/same gear card?

for the Moment, use this:
Effects on Squads
It is possible that a squad that is under the influence of an ability, spell or effect or has a card attached to it, gets new members (character attaching, models creating new models etc.) or gets split into two squads (character de-attaches).
In the case of models getting attached, the ability / card effect will apply to the new member of the squad equally (if applicable). If you merge two squads that have a tactical card played on them, discard yours first (your choice), then your opponent´s (opponent’s choice) until there is only one tactical card left.

When a squad is splitting up, any ability effect will dissipate on the splitting model and will only affect the original squad. Any card attached to the squad can either stay with the original squad or be transferred to the new squad, chosen by the card´s owner.

If a card only affects a single model, the target of the card can never change, regardless if a new squad is formed or an existing one split up.

5. Charatcers joining/leaving units and debuffs: what happens when a character leaves a unit affected by a debuff power? Are both still affected or just one (which one)?

see above

6. Can an Attila Exterminateur make more than 6 shots by combining its weapon ability, tactical card and burning a resource (I see no reason to forbid it, but I've seen a different interpretation so just wanted to make sure).

yes.

7. Are hits from Attila Exterminateur's weapon on its core resolved before or simultaneously/after making shots (can they kill the Attila before it gets to shoot)? [EDIT: actually I found the answer myself: Juggernaut's Weapon Overcharge specifically says that a similiar roll is made before RS tests, there is no such requirement for the Exterminateur so the self-inflicted hits can be resolved at least simultaneously with all the RS tests]

the hits are applied afterwards.

8. Max Steiner and Creaming Devil have Booby/Gas traps in their equipment list but no rules for them - so do they have them or not? If yes, what rules what are the rules for traps (same as Venusian Rangers/Crimson Devils)?

correct. see the rangers / devils entry

9. What happens when a template or a rail line hits an open transport carrying some troops? Is everyone hit or should it be randomised in some way?

good question. for the Moment in lack of any other rule, make it a 50/50 Chance for everybody

Assur's picture

Thanks for the answers, really appreciate your help.

Regarding question 4d- characters joining units (both with allocated tactical cards) - I know you're working on a new errata/faq so consider a solution I've come up with - players can actually discard allocated cards by burning resources (if they don't, characters can't join) so there's already a legal solution in the rules.

Regarding question 9 - rolling separately for everybody for rail seems the right thing to do, for templates I'd suggest everybody being automatically hit (that's how they solved it in Warhammer Fantasy and it's closer to how templates work in Warzone)

Assur's picture

The 2.2 errata is out, but I still have a few new questions:

1. Emancipator Combat Aircraft: How exactly does MG-40 LMG's weapon ability work? The rules (Making a ranged attack, point 1.1) say that all shots are made at the same time, so the ability shouldn't work at all as there are no "secondary" shots.

2. Can the Voltigeur release its drones already flying? The rules say that "range to the [flying] model is calculated to the base on the ground" so technically the B2B condition is met, but I'm not sure if this was the intention and wanted to make sure.

3. Holy Sentinels' Furious Zeal - These model´s Close Combat weapons gain ST and ROA(+1). There seems to be some grammar mistake here - does the St and Roa bonus apply to a single model or to the entire squad (before the errata it was a single model)? [EDIT: found the answer on Facebook - all Holy Sentinels get the St/RoA bonus]

4. Nepharite's By My Will - does it also affect characters attached to Undead Legionnaire squads?

fredfrog1234's picture

Hey everyone, probably a silly question but i was wondering if i could get some help understanding how Poison works. The way i understand it is that it requires the target to take a CON check instead of an A check, and the CON test is still modified by the strength of the weapon.
This is where i get a bit confused as when Dr Diana Clone uses the poison on her CC weapon she is hitting with a strength of 13 overall which seems a little OP when it comes to the constitution check. Any help would be useful, thanks!

Assur's picture

Weapons with poison have their own St, it isn't added to the user's St like with normal weapons. Dr Diana has ST (2) poison weapon (it's 2, not +2), so only 2 points are dedeucted from the target's Con for the Con test.

Copyright © Prodos Games 2016